Justcuttin - oops_another

oops ... I think i've opened another one
Ever had one of those weeks where you just seem to constantly be putting your foot in your mouth? Well it seems last week was just that for me. I posted a story about things that were happening over in the US that were relevant to the Cutting Industry in Australia. One was about talk over there about raising the age of Futurity horses to four years old. That issue generated a lot of emails and I have posted the ones that best represent the main points of view that were sent to me. read story

Thank you to all who wrote to me. The other part of the story was about HERDA and how one particular Stallion owner advertised his stallion as a HERDA carrier. Just when I thought this particular subject attracted little interest I receive the email below. The author is raising the question about what are the facts about HERDA related fatalities. In other words how many horses are actually being Euthanised because of HERDA. I thought I'd call the AQHA about this to find out. The answer was they didn't know. It also raises the question that is it possible that there are HERDA affected horses out there that are affected at a lower level. Is it possible that we are only hearing about the worst cases?How much effort has been made to find HERDA positive horses that don't show symptons of the condition?

As all horse owners would agree, the last thing you want is to lose your horse to any illness or to see your horse suffering in any way. But it is also fair that horse owners are being presented with all the facts. Here is the letter.

To justcuttin'

I would like to make comment on you recent posting about HERDA. I am very upset that the hype created about HERDA is getting repeated and re-written without anyone actually providing any facts. In your article you state that "HERDA is a fatal disease". I have not seen any scientific research that supports this!!! In fact, the only statement from scientists involved in HERDA research is "HERDA may be fatal", without any statements being made about what percentage of afflicted horses develop symptoms that may necessitate the horse being destroyed. Here is my take on HERDA:

The recent article by the AQHA published in the NCHA Chatta claims to be providing reliable information, supported and substantiated by scientific fact. However, I am yet to see the scientific facts that most rule changes were based on. Furthermore, I believe the over-reaction by the AQHA in response to HERDA is what has caused most of the ill-informed innuendo.

HERDA is a genetic recessive skin condition.
The gene has been traced back to Poco Bueno.
Cornell University was a major player in developing a genetic marker test for HERDA, and has now been contracted as the AQHA's sole provider for the compulsory genetic tests.
Early figures made available by Cornell University , AQHA (USA) and AQHA (Aus) suggest a carrier rate of 18% amongst horses tested for the gene.
Cornell University has predicted they will be trying to develop 2 tests each year for genetic disorders.

Horses with the bloodlines of known HERDA carriers have been imported into Australia for the last 25 years (Doc Olena, Smart Little Lena, Dry Doc, Highbrow Cat), so it is likely that the percentage of carriers in Australia would be rather similar to the US .

Now my genetic knowledge tells me that if 18% of Quarter horses in Australia are HERDA carriers, about 4% of all Quarter Horses foaled in Australia should be HERDA afflicted. This means, 1 in every 25 foals should be suffering from this “brutal” affliction.

In addition it is claimed that “most afflicted horses are unlikely to have an extended lifespan”, and also that most horses are euthanized due to the injuries they suffer.

Since the “news” on HERDA first broke, I have asked dozens of people about their experiences, and among the stories of hundreds of foals, I have heard one story: A person I met at a show told me they knew of a “friend”, who had an afflicted horse and had to put it down. ONE horse amongst hundreds, if not thousands.

Now what could be the possible reasons for this anecdotal discrapency? If we assume that the genetic statistics used above to justify mandatory HERDA testing are correct, the most likely scenario is what is referred to as “expression” of a genetic trait. Horses affected by a genetic disorder may express the disorder to varying degrees, depending on various other factors (genetic or other).

What this would mean is, that whilst a HERDA afflicted horse expressing the order to it's fullest may have it's skin peeling off, other afflicted horses may have little or no expression. In effect an afflicted horse may simply be prone to develop girth sores.

Whilst I am not in a position to support this “theory” with facts and figures, I am afraid that the few fact and figures available about HERDA do in no way support a straight-forward fully expressive recessive genetic disorder. And so whilst the facts do not support it, the AQHA has already committed to “eradicate this crippling disease in Australia ”.

Now, why has there been such a hype about HERDA in recent years? After all, Poco Bueno and his famous offspring mentioned above have been around and breeding for almost 50 years, and you'd find very few successful horses, here or in the USA , that do not have one or multiple crosses to Poco Bueno .

Maybe I am just too much of a cynic, but is it a surprise that HERDA was indetified as a crippling disease (it's actually a disorder) about the same time as a genetic test for HERDA was developed.

Doug Antcak, Professor of Equine Medicine at Cornell University (which conducts the HERDA test for the AQHA Aus) is quoted as saying: “I think we're on a roll now to where we'll see a new single-gene genetic disease identified in the horse every year, maybe every six months” (Paint Horse Journal February/March 2008).

He goes on to predict that “we could eliminate 10 or 15 of these simple genetic deseases of the horse, using information from gene testing”.

Once again, maybe I am a cynic, but which 10-15 diseases do we need to eliminate? Until the HERDA test was developed, I do not know anyone who was concerned about HERDA. I did not have friends come up to me, upset as their horses were peeling for no reason.

I've heard of horses running through fences, dying of colic, breaking a leg, and plenty dying from these reasons. I've even heard of a number of horses that died being struck by lightning – and only of one destroyed "possibly" due to HERDA.

All I can see is people quoting people, who are quoting people, who are quoting people.... but no facts....

Stefan Wielebinski

Thanks Stefan. Here are a few more facts.
1. It is reported that the disease first surfaced in 1971, 2 Years after Poco Bueno's death.
2. He lived until he was 25.
3. Doc O'Lena and Smart Little Lena only carry one cross of Poco Bueno in their bloodlines. Highbrow Cat has two crosses.
4. It is impossible to trace where Poco Bueno got his HERDA genes from.
5. In his day Poco Bueno along with his father King were the leading sire of performance horses in the USA.

If Poco Bueno had 24 foal crops which means his first foal crop dropped when he was four or five years old. Why did it take another 22 years for the disease to surface?
Does this mean it is possible to have HERDA positive horses not show the symptons of the disease? Before we water down the the Poco Bueno bloodline would it not be responsible to have these questions answered?

If anyone would like to add please don't hesitate to email admin@justcuttin.com.au

back to main page


NEWS INTRODUCTION CUTTING HISTORY PROFILES LOUNGE ROOM Q&A's CLUBS SALE BARN STUD BOOK CLASSIFIEDS BUSINESS DIRECTORY RESULTS

		All stud & stallion owners, trainers and show secretaries please forward all press releases to admin@justcuttin.com.au

			oops ... I think i've opened another one Ever had one of those weeks where you just seem to constantly be putting your foot in your mouth? Well it seems last week was just that for me. I posted a story about things that were happening over in the US that were relevant to the Cutting Industry in Australia. One was about talk over there about raising the age of Futurity horses to four years old. That issue generated a lot of emails and I have posted the ones that best represent the main points of view that were sent to me. read story Thank you to all who wrote to me. The other part of the story was about HERDA and how one particular Stallion owner advertised his stallion as a HERDA carrier. Just when I thought this particular subject attracted little interest I receive the email below. The author is raising the question about what are the facts about HERDA related fatalities. In other words how many horses are actually being Euthanised because of HERDA. I thought I'd call the AQHA about this to find out. The answer was they didn't know. It also raises the question that is it possible that there are HERDA affected horses out there that are affected at a lower level. Is it possible that we are only hearing about the worst cases?How much effort has been made to find HERDA positive horses that don't show symptons of the condition? As all horse owners would agree, the last thing you want is to lose your horse to any illness or to see your horse suffering in any way. But it is also fair that horse owners are being presented with all the facts. Here is the letter. To justcuttin' I would like to make comment on you recent posting about HERDA. I am very upset that the hype created about HERDA is getting repeated and re-written without anyone actually providing any facts. In your article you state that "HERDA is a fatal disease". I have not seen any scientific research that supports this!!! In fact, the only statement from scientists involved in HERDA research is "HERDA may be fatal", without any statements being made about what percentage of afflicted horses develop symptoms that may necessitate the horse being destroyed. Here is my take on HERDA: HERDA – where are the facts??? The recent article by the AQHA published in the NCHA Chatta claims to be providing reliable information, supported and substantiated by scientific fact. However, I am yet to see the scientific facts that most rule changes were based on. Furthermore, I believe the over-reaction by the AQHA in response to HERDA is what has caused most of the ill-informed innuendo. Let's just look at the facts at hand: HERDA is a genetic recessive skin condition. The gene has been traced back to Poco Bueno. Cornell University was a major player in developing a genetic marker test for HERDA, and has now been contracted as the AQHA's sole provider for the compulsory genetic tests. Early figures made available by Cornell University , AQHA (USA) and AQHA (Aus) suggest a carrier rate of 18% amongst horses tested for the gene. Cornell University has predicted they will be trying to develop 2 tests each year for genetic disorders. Horses with the bloodlines of known HERDA carriers have been imported into Australia for the last 25 years (Doc Olena, Smart Little Lena, Dry Doc, Highbrow Cat), so it is likely that the percentage of carriers in Australia would be rather similar to the US . Now my genetic knowledge tells me that if 18% of Quarter horses in Australia are HERDA carriers, about 4% of all Quarter Horses foaled in Australia should be HERDA afflicted. This means, 1 in every 25 foals should be suffering from this “brutal” affliction. In addition it is claimed that “most afflicted horses are unlikely to have an extended lifespan”, and also that most horses are euthanized due to the injuries they suffer. Since the “news” on HERDA first broke, I have asked dozens of people about their experiences, and among the stories of hundreds of foals, I have heard one story: A person I met at a show told me they knew of a “friend”, who had an afflicted horse and had to put it down. ONE horse amongst hundreds, if not thousands. Now what could be the possible reasons for this anecdotal discrapency? If we assume that the genetic statistics used above to justify mandatory HERDA testing are correct, the most likely scenario is what is referred to as “expression” of a genetic trait. Horses affected by a genetic disorder may express the disorder to varying degrees, depending on various other factors (genetic or other). What this would mean is, that whilst a HERDA afflicted horse expressing the order to it's fullest may have it's skin peeling off, other afflicted horses may have little or no expression. In effect an afflicted horse may simply be prone to develop girth sores. Whilst I am not in a position to support this “theory” with facts and figures, I am afraid that the few fact and figures available about HERDA do in no way support a straight-forward fully expressive recessive genetic disorder. And so whilst the facts do not support it, the AQHA has already committed to “eradicate this crippling disease in Australia ”. Now, why has there been such a hype about HERDA in recent years? After all, Poco Bueno and his famous offspring mentioned above have been around and breeding for almost 50 years, and you'd find very few successful horses, here or in the USA , that do not have one or multiple crosses to Poco Bueno . Maybe I am just too much of a cynic, but is it a surprise that HERDA was indetified as a crippling disease (it's actually a disorder) about the same time as a genetic test for HERDA was developed. Doug Antcak, Professor of Equine Medicine at Cornell University (which conducts the HERDA test for the AQHA Aus) is quoted as saying: “I think we're on a roll now to where we'll see a new single-gene genetic disease identified in the horse every year, maybe every six months” (Paint Horse Journal February/March 2008). He goes on to predict that “we could eliminate 10 or 15 of these simple genetic deseases of the horse, using information from gene testing”. Once again, maybe I am a cynic, but which 10-15 diseases do we need to eliminate? Until the HERDA test was developed, I do not know anyone who was concerned about HERDA. I did not have friends come up to me, upset as their horses were peeling for no reason. I've heard of horses running through fences, dying of colic, breaking a leg, and plenty dying from these reasons. I've even heard of a number of horses that died being struck by lightning – and only of one destroyed "possibly" due to HERDA. So, what are the scientific facts??? Where are the figures??? All I can see is people quoting people, who are quoting people, who are quoting people.... but no facts.... Stefan Wielebinski Thanks Stefan. Here are a few more facts. 1. It is reported that the disease first surfaced in 1971, 2 Years after Poco Bueno's death. 2. He lived until he was 25. 3. Doc O'Lena and Smart Little Lena only carry one cross of Poco Bueno in their bloodlines. Highbrow Cat has two crosses. 4. It is impossible to trace where Poco Bueno got his HERDA genes from. 5. In his day Poco Bueno along with his father King were the leading sire of performance horses in the USA. If Poco Bueno had 24 foal crops which means his first foal crop dropped when he was four or five years old. Why did it take another 22 years for the disease to surface? Does this mean it is possible to have HERDA positive horses not show the symptons of the disease? Before we water down the the Poco Bueno bloodline would it not be responsible to have these questions answered? If anyone would like to add please don't hesitate to email admin@justcuttin.com.au back to main page





	Need a website? click here