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can of worms feedback - doc bar assasinated jessie james. In last weeks Can of Worms I presented the idea that perhaps Jessie James's potential as a sire was effected by the popularity of Doc Bar. Read Story. It would appear I stand corrected. Below are a couple of emails I recieved about the article. "Whilst promotion of a stallion may increase the number of mares being bred to him, this does not buy a stallion success as a sire. Doc Bar sired some of the finest cutting horses this world has seen, and the fact that he proved so successful not only as a sire, but as a paternal and maternal grandsire, proves what a legend he was. And for a running bred, halter champion this would have been even harder to achieve than for any successful cutter. If you check the record books you will see that Doc Bar did not get many mares in his early years, and they were not the best ones either. There were good ones amongst the early ones, as the Jensens (owners of Doc Bar) thought that Poco Tivio and Poco Bueno mares crossed well with him, but there were not many. Most of his famous offspring were sired in the 1970s, when Doc Bar was in his twilight as a sire, after the phenomenal success of his 2 sons from Poco Lena. Her only 2 sons by Doc Bar (Doc Olena and Dry Doc) won successive Futurities, with Doc Olena also winning all go-rounds. Jessie James, on the other hand, would have had much better opportunities, growing up and being owned by the Waggoner Ranch, one of the leading breeders of cutting horses since the inception of the NCHA. His credentials as a performer were impeccable, and he was a popular buckskin to boot. However, even early on, the Waggoner Ranch chose to promote their other 2 stallions (Poco Bueno and Poco Tivio) over Jessie James as a breeding stallion. Matlock Rose, who showed Jessie James, stated that the Waggoner Ranch preferred Poco Bueno, as he was by King, who was the most successful Quarter Horse sire at the time. However, there may have been more reasons than that, as no ranch, let alone one as successful as Waggoner Ranch, would reject a superior sire due to unfashionable breeding. We are talking about Waggoner Ranch, who promoted a stallion by Highbrow Hickory, against stallions by the (certainly a lot more fashionable) sires like Smart Little Lena, Peppy San Badger and Freckles Playboy. They stuck by the horse, and whilst it has taken them 10 years, Highbrow Cat is now the most fashionable sire himself. One must not mistake fashionable bloodlines with proven bloodlines. Bloodlines become fashionable as a result of success. Proven Bloodlines are those that repeat success over and over again. Most talk about hybrid vigour are totally inappropriate in the context of horse breeding. It usually refers to the crossing of 2 different breeds of animals (eg Braham x Hereford) with very different characteristics. Breeding 2 different families of Quarterhorses to each other would never achieve hybrid vigour, as their genetics are too similar. Most times, when horse breeders talk about hybrid vigour, they refer to the crossing of 2 different families of horses in order to combine the best traits of either family. However, this always spells the danger that certain individuals will combine the worst traits of either family. And cross-breeding for the sake of widening the gene pool just means introducing inferior genetics for no good reason. Linebreeding increases your chances of a predictable result, as you are perpetuating certain traits. Docs Spinifex was often noted as passing on bad legs. However, all those I have seen with bad legs usually came from families with weak legs to start with (Doc Olena colts were not known for passing on good legs). All Spinifex horses with Hollywood Gold breeding on the bottom line (rather than Doc Olena) seem to have good legs. The gene pool of quarter horses is not really narrowing much, and if so, only on a global scale. Let's face it, before AI, frozen semen, and before stallions were shuttled around the world, there was a time, when people did not load their horse onto a trailer and drive 500ks to the best stallion... mares were bred to the stallion that happened to live nearby, and that was it. There was a few thousand gene pools, but each in itself was narrow. Being able to combine these gene pools has led to a situation, where now people have horses far superior for whatever persuit they may be following. If you want a cutter, breed a cutter, if you want a reiner, breed one of them, and if you want an allrounder, you can breed one of them, too. All you have to do is pick a stallion suitable to produce what you want with the mare you are breeding. Lets face it, the stallions out there are fantastic, it's usually the mares and poor selection that is letting people down. I use a simple rule for breeding: Breed the best mare you can get your hands on to the best stallion you know, and you'll have the best chance to get a decent horse. If people try to breed a horse on paper, working out some pseudo-genetic reasons of why the foal should be good - good luck to them. I try sticking with good horses regards Stefan RAMORNIE QUARTER HORSES - home of "Poco Blue Moon" NRHA Open Futurity Champion 2007 Then there's this one. Yes you have got me interested, my thoughts as a newie to cutting Breeding, we breed the best with best and hope for the best, because of time taken and cost involved once started a breeding program can take many generations to change. I have read books on breeding and they talk about genotype and phenotype and many known things that we can breed for and sometime regret, ie: conformation fault there is the theory that for every good gain there is also the opposite. One theory used in the grocery game, it's a rule developed by someone famous that I don't remember is .. it's the 80/20 rule, that 80%of sales will come from20% of your inventory I feel that this is happening in cutting. Just look at any futurity 100 plus entries, from how many started to how many that continue I sometimes think there is a large hole behind Tamworth that swallows the also ran's. Perhaps I could ponder on one of my mares, her breeding is in the news at the moment Storm Creek.Abie Road Q55613 is a pretty palomino from a Non Pro winning stallion out of the no.10 all time leading dams. SC Abie Road is bred similar to Miss Henry both by a Spinifex son out of Freckles Playboy mare out of Murrumbo Brenda. One is a ledged with huge earnings, the other will have to make do with weekend earnings my point is, there is a lot that makes a cutter, not luck but more about being in the right spot at the right time, it also is about the time available for training and I would say about individual personality . Abbie started late because of E.I but has trained out and has won a local novice Abie in my mind fits the 80/20 rule and fits the best with best rule (within personal cost and preference ) ABIE's future may well be as a brood mare, should I think about line breeding say to preserve the “cutter Bill” copperbottom line perhaps use a “spinifex stallion “ what about “freckles playboy “ I hear he was pretty good and so it still comes back to best with best and hope for the best . I look at many stallions and all are trying to sieze the moment by being full blood brother/ 7/8 or similar, even unshown due to injury etc etc. I understand that factor is what they call prepontant or the ability to breed on but this is usually attributed to a sire after many breedings that have been tried and work. I might also menton that the cheque book also has a little to do with the success of a venture . I might point out that whilst new to cutting we have over 20years experience in cattle breeding which is 20% breeding 80% feeding and I suppose you can eat you mistakes Yours Allan Hunter a new cutter
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